Today a group of teachers met to discuss issues evolving around character. The discussion turned to what should teachers base their grades on effort or results. So if someone is trying extremely hard but not doing well do you bump them up a grade. Should we be more worried about the process or the result? Do you think there is a strong correlation with time spent studying (reading, studying and even listening intensely in class) with the results.
As the discussion continued a teacher noticed that I post my top ten students, which is based on results only. It made me wonder does posting these results make people who work hard but do not get good results feel bad? Is it a board worth posting?
Also we discussed what is more exciting to a student the anticipation of the grade or the actual grade itself. So when you take a test are you more tense, anxious, excited about finding out your grade, then you feel happy when you do well.
The science of willpower is making me rethink alot of what I do as a teacher. Your thoughts
I can't speak for everyone, but recently I've found that my test grades are generally a big motivator for me to work harder. Especially in a class like econ, where most of your grade is a reflection of test and quiz grades, a dip in my test scores was a really big concern for me. It motivated me to study really hard for the midterm, and when I got my results back, the reward of seeing that my studying had paid off gave me a reason to start using the same strategy in other classes.
ReplyDeleteIn Biology and Calc, I've been spending much more time than usual reading the book and studying, and the results speak for themselves. The positive feedback, I think has been a good reason for me to keep on studying the way I have. So I guess in my experience the results drive the process. I go into studying with a much more positive mindset knowing that it will be worth it in the end.
I guess selfishly, I like the top ten board because it's a good motivator for me. However, I don't think that good grades should be a bragging right, but a reward in and of itself. If it's hurtful to other students, I would have no problem with having it taken down.
I believe that school is not meant to be a place that produces dumb people who work hard to be quite straight forward about it. The point of a class is to teach the material and I believe the grade should reflect how smart the student is in the subject and how well he/she retained the information. Thinking of the topic not as a student, I believe all grades should be from quizzes. Quizzes are the only way that you can see how much someone knows. Anyone can go home and Google the answers to homework questions. I believe homework should be given but not graded or required. The homework will act as further learning for those students that need it. However, being a student who doesn't have the best test taking skills, I love me some easy 100s :)
ReplyDeleteIf we simply grade students on hard work, honestly universities will not know if you can handle the material. Yes hard work is a big component to success but if you try really hard and are usually a C student, you shouldn't get an A in the class. They haven't mastered the material. Plus judging how hard someone works is completely subjective. I agree with Taylor that grades motivate me. In Gt physics last year, the first quarter was a struggle for me, but I used that in my favor and got As the rest of the quarters. Results motivate me to do better. I didn't master the material the first quarter even though I tried really hard so I did deserve the B. I like the top ten board and also you have the most improved students from previous tests. Mr. Bressler you do praise those that improved their test scores. Maybe you can put more people that improved on the board because usually there are only 2 or 3 people.
ReplyDeleteI share the same joy as the next student when they receive a good grade on a test they worked hard for or not. Although, I also share the same sort of disappointment with any poor grade I get. This grade especially hurts when I truly studied the material with care and serious amounts of focus and time. I am instantly defeated in a way. If this trend continues many students, even myself from time to time, thinks of themselves as the problem. When in many cases if not in all them they are not. They work and work, but something prevents them from the desired grade. In terms of my own work, I think the times that I feel most accomplished in school is when I work the hardest and the way I am able to explain and apply my work (and it may even show in class or in my written work). Getting the grades is always nice, but it doesn't feel as good as when you have mastered a topic, it feels in a way sophisticated. I understand that test taking is the only true standardized mark of student's understanding. I believe that not everything can be measured, not everything must be standardized. It not only can discourage, but it conditions students from a young age that test taking in way dictates ability and that the interpretations say in an English benchmark are what you should notice. Tests are important, but shouldn't be our focus.
ReplyDeleteI agree that just straight tests aren't really a good indicator of how well someone knows the material. My friend once said that doing well on tests is really just a way of showing you know how to choose an answer that people want to hear.
DeleteIn my discussion based classes, I found that the moments where I felt the best grasp of the material was when I was giving my opinion on a subject we were studying or explaining a concept to another person. Oral quizzes are definitely not the best way of testing knowledge, but I agree that the methods that we currently use leave a lot to be desired.
That being said, I also don't think that people should be given a better grade if they haven't mastered the material, regardless of whether they worked hard or not. That wouldn't be fair to the people who actually do understand the material, and undermines the goal of putting kids in a classroom, which is for them to master skills necessary for later in life.
From my own experiences in classes, I definitely believe that there is a huge correlation between the time and effort I put into that class and the results. In this context, I use "results" to mean both my grade and my satisfaction from really mastering the material. Because of this, I think that
ReplyDeletethe process and the results are both important, although I think that the results should contribute more towards the final grade. I understand that a teacher might want to reward a student's hard work in a class by basing grades more heavily on effort, but I think that would reduce the incentive to really master the material.
It's true that some students can get by and earn good grades through raw intelligence and minimal work; the subject may come easily to them and it doesn't take much effort for them to understand the content. I know that this doesn't seem fair to the students who have to work harder for the grade but it's a part of life that everyone has to accept. The students who work hard are rewarded by the satisfaction they feel from knowing that they really put in some serious effort to earn the grade. Also, the work ethic and grit that they learn through the experience of hard work are invaluable in life and will pay dividends for them. This is worth way more than a grade in my opinion.
In fact, there are some classes where I'm not motivated by my grade so much, but instead I'm driven to work hard just for the sake of working hard and feeling satisfied. It's these classes though where I really enjoy the subjects and there's an intrinsic motivation for me to learn the material. I also think that having a positive relationship with a teacher really motivates me to work harder in a class. There are a couple teachers who I've had who I respect so much and really enjoy their class because they are awesome people that I'm motivated to work hard and learn the material because I want to impress that teacher and I want that teacher to respect me and think that I'm a competent student.
Also, I want to respond to Ethan and Taylor's discussion about the ability of multiple-choice tests to measure mastery of a subject. I agree with both of you. Taking multiple-choice tests is a skill that many of us have learned and become proficient at. There are certain "test taking strategies" that we learn early on and we've been primed to take these tests and choose an answer that the people who designed the test are looking for. It can be an okay indication of a student's mastery of material but it's not the best. It's too easy for a student with a superficial understanding of material who is skilled at "thinking the way test makers want them to think" to fake their way through a multiple choice test. This year I've been introduced to several other methods of testing used in my AP Bio class and I think they are really beneficial. Oral exams are fantastic! I know they take a great amount of time and effort to grade, but they force a student to explain the material in depth and really demonstrate a thorough understanding. Also, having students stand in front of the class and teach the material to their classmates is hugely beneficial to both parties from my experience.
So yeah. That's what I think. :)
When I read the replies it makes me realize how lucky I am to teach such smart and thoughtful people. I continue to hope that education attracts young people like yourselves. The countries future depends on it
DeleteIn a fair class, effort has a strong correlation to results, at least in my experience. What bothers me the most is when I put in more effort than a class is really worth to get out with a rather obnoxious B. Why would I put forth the effort for an 89% only to later discover that to get the A I would have had to have doubled the effort I put in for the high B. In a fair class I would argue grading on effort and grading on results are very close. If the class is skewed then the teacher really isn't grading on much of anything at all.
ReplyDeleteWhen I found myself in this situation with GT World I deemed the A not worth the amount of work it would have required. In that class I did not care what my grade was and frankly had no anticipation to find out what the grade was. This carries over to both French 5 and 6. Regardless of what I turn in I will get the same grade. I make the corrections, turn it in and will get the same grade. No matter what I do, I get the same grade. If I was not self-motivated to do well on the AP French exam I would put forth no effort. If a choice has to be made, I would air on the side of grading by results as perceived effort does not always equal real effort.